Article: Samsung Doesn’t Think Apple Can Compete in the TV Market

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    • Samsung doesn’t think Apple can compete in the TV market. That sounds vaguely familiar…

Samsung AV product lead Chris Moseley, circa today:

TVs are ultimately about picture quality. Ultimately. How smart they are…great, but let’s face it that’s a secondary consideration. The ultimate is about picture quality and there is no way that anyone, new or old, can come along this year or next year and beat us on picture quality.

Oh, right. This is what I’m recalling:

Palm CEO Ed Colligan, circa 2006:

Responding to questions from New York Times correspondent John Markoff at a Churchill Club breakfast gathering Thursday morning, Colligan laughed off the idea that any company — including the wildly popular Apple Computer — could easily win customers in the finicky smart-phone sector.

“We’ve learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent phone,” he said. “PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They’re not going to just walk in.”

Whatever happened to Palm, anyway?

Alternate title:

Samsung shifts strategy from copying Apple to copying the chutzpah of a company that Apple put out of business

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Brian Ford

You’d think some of these companies would eventually stop betting against Apple.

  • 5 votes

#1 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:16 PM ESTJay Butler

That also sounds a lot like RIM in 2007.

  • 4 votes

#1.1 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:37 PM ESTnotsojingo

Can’t beat ‘The Devil and Mr Jobs!’

    #1.2 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:26 PM ESTjfxgillis

    Brian:

    You and Jay battling manfully about tech?

    2007 called. They want their Newsvine thread back.

    Btw, seriously. You back?

    • 3 votes

    #1.3 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:07 PM ESTPlantsmantx

    TVs are ultimately about picture quality.

    That was the exact thought I has when I saw the title on this post. These day, it’s not only about picture quality, but cost, too.

    • 1 vote

    #1.4 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:52 PM ESTnotsojingo

    These days, it’s not only about picture quality, but cost, too.

    Both are drastically improved, as a decent 1080p set can be easily had for a third or less of the costs only three or four years ago.

    You’ve seen the adverts! Yet none Made In America…

    $$$ >>> China and the Samurai owners of the largest consumer electronics families, but that doesn’t figure in this conversation, I quess.

    Peace

      #1.5 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:09 PM ESTPlantsmantx

      …the exact thought I had….:).

      Both are drastically improved, as a decent 1080p set can be easily had for a third or less of the costs only three or four years ago.

      Yes, and the one thing we know an Apple television won’t be is inexpensive.

      • 1 vote

      #1.6 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:14 PM ESTJay Butler

      2007 called. They want their Newsvine thread back.

      If only, Jack. If only. Seriously, it is nice to have some tech seeds where there is an active conversation. One of the more prolific anti-Apple seeders tends to seed the crap, leave a snarky comment and never show up on the thread again. Not really the spirit of what Newsvine was aiming for.

      • 2 votes

      #1.7 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:26 PM ESTBrian Ford

      Btw, seriously. You back?

      Well, I’m “back” in that I’m interested in writing, for now. We’ll see how long that lasts. I suspect I’ll have a hard time ignoring the election content anyway, so may as well write while I’m here.

      • 4 votes

      #1.8 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:49 PM ESTBrian Ford

      Yes, and the one thing we know an Apple television won’t be is inexpensive.

      You never know. Everyone thought the iPad was going to start at $1000 and it ended up being half that. Meanwhile, no one that wants to profit by selling a tablet has been able to beat that price, and certainly not when matching the build quality and specs.

      Apple’s got the business chops to negotiate something good and I would guess that part of why we’re not seeing something yet is because they’ve not hit their sweet spot of price/peformance/quality.

      • 3 votes

      #1.9 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:51 PM ESTjfxgillis

      Brian:

      I’m interested in writing, for now. We’ll see how long that lasts.

      That’s pretty much all that matters.

      • 3 votes

      #1.10 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:52 PM ESTJay Butler

      Brian: Don’t know if you already saw this, but you were Fireballed.

      • 3 votes

      #1.11 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:57 PM ESTnotsojingo

      Fame is not always fleeting, eh Brian?

      :-))

        #1.12 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:06 PM ESTMJMullinII

        Now, I’m an Android fan myself (I like the more openness of the Android OS vs. Apple’s closed iOS).

        HOWEVER…if I were buying a smartphone for someone like my Grandma, I can tell you right now it would be an iPhone.

          #2 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:34 PM ESTPat N

          My limited knowledge on the subject is going to keep me from posting too much in this article beyond the simple, based solely on personal preference opinion that after having experienced both Apple’s and Samsung’s technology, I’d be extremely interested in (and receptive to) seeing what Apple could come out with in the TV market.

          The other reason for dropping by was to say I’m glad to see you contributing again, Brian.

          • 3 votes

          #3 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:52 PM ESTBrian Ford

          Thanks.

          I think you’re closer to understanding the issue than this guy from Samsung is.

          Samsung is looking in the wrong direction, just as Palm was looking in the wrong direction.

          Of course, the iTV is still a rumor (albeit a stronger than it ever has been before rumor) but if you’re Samsung and you’re dismissing Apple’s rumored plans to disrupt an industry — you’re just looking to get caught with your pants down.

          • 3 votes

          #3.1 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:56 PM EST SeattleBobb

          I agree that the comments by the Samsung rep are not really considering the loyal fan base that Apple has, but that being said, I would not equate that individuals comments to Samsung failing to recognize Apple as a potential TV competitor. I think Samsung is a lot better run and more in-tune to what is going on and to their current and potential competitors than Palm ever was.

          Samsung is exploding in multiple fronts and their advances in their smartphone and ability to put out improved products at a faster rate than Apple, is slowly eating into Apples share of the phone market. The speed of product releases is a big thing in today’s market because consumers always love the latest gadgets. Although, Samsung has to tightly manage their growth and expenditures because it could turn around and bite them.

          Here is an interesting article about the growth of Samsung:

          http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-26/samsung-poised-to-win-market-share-on-42-billion-capital-investment-tech.html

            #4 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:25 PM ESTBrian Ford

            I think Samsung is a lot better run and more in-tune to what is going on and to their current and potential competitors than Palm ever was.

            What evidence do you have of that? Samsung jumped on the foolish 3D market just as hungrily as anyone else. Samsung throws things at a wall just to see what sticks.

            The speed of product releases is a big thing in today’s market because consumers always love the latest gadgets.

            Is there any evidence at all that the speed of Samsung’s product releases has in any way caused a problem for Apple’s business model? We could argue all day about whether Samsung has put out any “advances in the smartphone industry” (and I assure you, we’d not agree) but the fact of the matter is, there’s not a single Samsung phone that outsells the iPhone and there’s no company anywhere with the profit share Apple enjoys.

            And therein lies the rub: Companies seem to think that Apple can’t compete because Apple will focus on a single product, simplified down to its core features, at the exclusion of choice. If you think that consumers are in love with what they’re being offered in TVs — packed with settings they don’t understand, cable options that they don’t understand, and a focus on specs that they largely don’t give a @!$%# about — I think you’re about to be as surprised as Samsung.

            And, if you don’t want to use Samsung as your example, we’ll go with RIM: It’s hard to say that RIM was anything BUT the dominant player in the industry. They’re in free fall too, at this stage.

            The fact is, “choice” is overrated for most consumers, and this is something that Apple surprises everyone with year after year after year.

            • 5 votes

            #4.1 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:39 PM ESTSeattleBobb

            What evidence do you have of that? Samsung jumped on the foolish 3D market just as hungrily as anyone else. Samsung throws things at a wall just to see what sticks.

            Samsung’s growth is a clear example. The numbers don’t lie. Plus, there share of back end chip market is a smart move because they have greater control over a large portion of raw materials and supply chain of their products. I am not saying they are better than Apple, but they are doing a much better job than any other competitor of Apple to gain market share. Android and Apple dominate the smartphone market and Samsung is gaining ground in the android market. Again, its not beating Apple, but it’s doing the best at gaining market share.

            http://www.marketwatch.com/story/android-apple-gain-in-smartphone-market-2012-02-02

            Is there any evidence at all that the speed of Samsung’s product releases has in any way caused a problem for Apple’s business model?

            Samsung’s growth in the smartphone market is easily identified. Any company gaining market share in the smartphone market means its causing concern for Apple. Now, does Apple have any major financial concern at this point. No, of course not, but it doesn’t mean that other companies aren’t doing a better job at increasing market share. Samsung has put out some of the most popular Android phones and those have been released at a faster rate than the Iphone versions. The only reason this might raise concern is if people don’t want to wait and then get locked into a phone/contract. Are they beating the Iphone? No, but they are gaining a little ground and gaining ground better than any other competitor. That is the main point. The examples of RIM and Palm are true, but those were companies who led the market and got to comfortable and didn’t anticipate competitors. Samsung is a bit different because they are working on gaining market share, not holding on to it, which is a different competitive angle than Apple has dealt with in the past. I realize this may be different for TV’s, but whether or not some PR vanilla comments made a product lead at Samsung really defines their attitude will be left to be seen.

            Again, I never said they are beating Apple. I said they are gaining ground in the smartphone an tablet market. That is a good thing because it is pushing Apple to improve its product release speed and look into other markets like TV’s. Competition is good, so companies like Samsung that are improving their market share just increases competition a bit. Get it????

            • 1 vote

            #4.2 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:46 PM ESTBrian Ford

            One thing I should clarify is that I’m not suggesting Apple is going to put Samsung out of business, though I guess my glib comment maybe suggests I think that.

            What I do think is that this comment is eerily similar to the previous comment, and I believe it’s that sort of dismissive head in the sand attitude that is going to be Apple’s best shot. People still stupidly treat Apple like the underdog.

            Obviously, there are other factors here, too. Samsung is a supplier which adds a factor that wasn’t there with the iPhone. It’s a different landscape, but I still say you ignore Apple’s moves at your own risk.

            • 3 votes

            #4.3 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:55 PM ESTSeattleBobb

            I never dismissed or ignored Apple in any of my posts. Please show me where I did that? I also never once talked about Apple as the underdog. It fact I outlined how it has been a leader and others are trying to follow.

            All I did was say that Samsung is due some credit. More so than many of the other competitors. That’s it. I even said Apple is clearly the leader in the phone market and other companies like Samsung are trying to acquire some of that market share.

              #4.4 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:49 PM ESTGreg Sparkman

              Steve Jobs understood the “tyranny of choice”. You only have to look at iPhone sales to understand that a plethora of Android choices is not the magic bullet to conquer the smartphone market. Their few versions of iMacs are the fastest growing computer models on the planet. In addition, I would argue that Samsung’s success has been a result of using a 3rd party OS built substantially from pirated technology (that is drifting towards a world of hurt in courts around the world), and their industrial design strategy has been copy the look and feel of the iPhone. Not a fantastic long term strategy. I also have to echo the comment above that should Apple build a television, they will not ignore the price issue. Apple is now smarter than that. It’s apparent that many Apple detractors are still seeing the Apple of 1997. Apple is now the “value proposition” in most of the market segments they compete within—not always the cheapest, but definitely the best bang for the buck. Lastly, why do Apple haters always fall back to the “cult of Apple” argument, assuming that Apple customers will buy anything with an Apple logo on it. 1–They won’t, and 2–Apple’s customer base is growing phenomenally from new customers that have never owned a previous Apple product. IF Apple produces a television of note, there will be mix of current and new Apple customers.

                #4.5 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:56 PM ESTBrian Ford

                I never dismissed or ignored Apple in any of my posts.

                Perhaps I wasn’t clear. I didn’t say YOU did. I said Samsung is. (“This comment” referred to the comment I posted as part of the article.)

                • 2 votes

                #4.6 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:14 PM ESTChasing

                You can use a Samsung credit card to buy a Samsung computer, from the Samsung affiliated department store, and then toss it into the back of your Samsung branded car, which probably at some point was on a Samsung ship. The thing about Samsung is that they’re good with their spin, and they’ve got plenty of successes to point at. They’re definitely not slouches. But under their successes they’ve got plenty of failures – those cars, for example. Imagine if Apple had to exit an entire industry? That’s both the good and bad of Samsung – they have that leeway, but their ghost of Christmas future looks an awful lot like the Sony of today, if they aren’t careful.

                • 2 votes

                #4.7 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:53 PM ESTMatthewM

                I agree that the comments by the Samsung rep are not really considering the loyal fan base that Apple has,

                That old chestnut, “Apple is only bobbing up there as the largest company by market-cap because of the Apple-faithful”.

                Yeah right.

                  #4.8 – Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:00 AM EST James Katt

                  Samsung sound exactly like RIM and Palm in 2006.

                  What they don’t realize is that all Apple has to do is to take the TOP END of the market in ANY market.

                  Apple isn’t seeking to get the largest marketshare.  All it wants is a small marketshare – the top of the market where most of the profits are.

                  In the PC Market, Apple makes 90% of the profits for computers costing $1000 or more.  

                  In the Cell Phone Market, Apple makes 75% of the profit with a less than 5% marketshare.

                  In other areas – where Apple dominates – Apple takes the lion’s share of the profit.  These are the Tablet market and the MP3 player market.

                  Of course, when Apple came out with the iPod, there were also critics who said it couldn’t compete in the MP3 player market.  Most are gone now.

                  The top end of the TV market is where Apple’s guns are targeting.  There is nothing a competitor can do about this.  

                  Competitors usually are cutting each others’ throats in a race to the bottom.  Apple doesn’t play that game.  Apple aims for the top and stays there.

                  • 2 votes

                  #5 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:46 PM ESTBrian Ford

                  Yep. That’s pretty much it.

                  (Though, Apple is getting better about being profitable despite being cost-competitive.)

                  • 2 votes

                  #5.1 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:50 PM ESTC. Mason Taylor

                  Yeah, no one has ever been unhappy with the usability of their TV. No one.

                  • 3 votes

                  #6 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:50 PM ESTBrian Ford

                  Also, no one has ever been to someone’s house and watched stretched out fat people because the TV owner couldn’t figure out how to sort out the aspect ratio across various devices.

                  Let’s not even get into the difference between video cables, component cables, composite cables, VGA cables, s-video cables, or why a company needs to provide all of those options.

                  • 4 votes

                  #6.1 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:00 PM ESTnotsojingo

                  You get a Big RGBY(Hor)B(Vert) on that, Brian!

                  😉

                  • 1 vote

                  #6.2 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:28 PM ESTMike Marion

                  Ironically, I have a few Samsung sets right now and I’ve been very happy with the usability of them. Granted, I have good setups where the TV is nothing but a monitor with a single HDMI in, speakers off.

                  The one huge complaint I had was when one of the LEDs died (HL67A750 with the phlatlight LEDs). It took almost 8 weeks(!) for the replacement part to come in. So the one experience I had with their customer service was horrible. That is an area where Apple tends to shine.

                  Samsung does need to watch their back, at least on the high-end.

                  • 3 votes

                  #6.3 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:53 PM ESTten times bester than you

                  Not to get nitpicky, but…

                   loyal fan base that Apple has

                  Yes, Apple does have a loyal fan base. But it’s not the “fan base” that’s making iPhone the best-selling phone on the market or that it’s the only PC maker that’s grown in the last 2 years. It’s the people who don’t have a stake in the Mac vs PC or iOS vs Android war.

                  The speed of product releases is a big thing in today’s market because consumers always love the latest gadgets

                  Continued strong sales of iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4 clearly suggest otherwise.

                  • 5 votes

                  #7 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:51 PM ESTBrian Ford

                  Yes, Apple does have a loyal fan base. But it’s not the “fan base” that’s making iPhone the best-selling phone on the market or that it’s the only PC maker that’s grown in the last 2 years. It’s the people who don’t have a stake in the Mac vs PC or iOS vs Android war.

                  Yep.

                  That’s why I don’t get the “only people who buy into an Apple cult buy Apple products”.

                  Really? That pretty much includes almost everyone, at this point in time. That’s quite a cult. Gotta love sweeping generalizations.

                  • 4 votes

                  #7.1 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:59 PM ESTPat N

                  That’s why I don’t get the “only people who buy into an Apple cult buy Apple products”.

                  For this particular technology-retarded Apple fan, it’s all about intuitive usability. And there are a bunch of us in that particular cult.

                  If Apple comes out with a TV that’s as intuitive as the rest of their products as well as continuing their trend of high quality graphics, sound, etc…I’ll be all over it. Ah…the idea of being down to just one remote again. One without 5,000 buttons. Heaven.

                  • 1 vote

                  #7.2 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:07 PM EST Paris Paraskeva

                  Hahaha 🙂 Samsung will be dead in the water and won’t be able to compete even 2 years after an apple TV comes out!

                  Hardware wise Samsung can do wonders, but today and tomorrow is not about hardware! It’s about software and content delivery! And thats where apple is king!

                  Let me explain this for a second!

                  Do you think in 10 years time with the evolving cable and dsl speeds TV channels as we know them will exist? I bet you not! It will be all about content delivery on demand!

                  Apple is one of the biggest content delivery providers, it’s not only apps,books, Music, but also movies, tv shows and music. Samsung does not have that! Apple spend the last 10 years starting with the iPod in order to build that ecosystem. There is no single company that can match that today! And it won’t be tomorrow! And it won’t be Samsung.

                  It’s not about the big dumb monitor sitting in front of you it’s about the content you consume on hat big monitor! Apple already has that ecosystem, Samsung will never have that, they are a hardware company!

                    #8 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:59 PM ESTbregalad

                    Samsung is nuts. The difference in picture quality between similarly priced units from LG, Sharp, Sony, Toshiba, etc. is really very small. It’s certainly not enough to justify spending an extra $100 or having to deal with an inferior user experience.

                    I have a Samsung mainly because it was on sale. My wife and I looked at all the brands and when we’d found 3 at the same price point with the same feature set we used picture quality to break the tie.

                    One thing we couldn’t test in busy stores was sound and our Samsung totally sucks in that department. My wife almost made me take it back to the store and exchange it for a different brand. For movies we run the sound through an external amp and speakers, but I can’t justify using twice the electricity for my kids’ cartoons.

                      #9 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:06 PM ESTn1313

                      Agree re: Samsung, but “using twice the electricity”? Whatever amp you have its electricity use is likely completely irrelevant, costing you cents / month.

                      If you want to save electricity, look at those household items that use massive amounts – air cons, electric heaters, hair dryers, oven, toaster, etc. An amp has maybe 50W, and using much less if you don’t turn it up all the way – it’s nothing.

                        #9.1 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:27 PM ESTkong3jie2

                        Think about what it was like buying a cell phone prior to the iPhone. Now think about how people buy televisions now, and how that could change with an Apple TV product. In 2007 cell phones were still in the early stages of coming up with ways of dealing with the possibilities of the Internet. Most interface approaches were clunky to the point of uselessness. Televisions are in some ways at the same point.

                        People want their televisions to do more, but they also need them to be simpler. If you’re going to root for picture quality to rule the field, you need to remember what happened to the superior acoustics of the LP…or even the CD, for that matter. It lost out to accessibility and convenience.

                          #10 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:09 PM ESTEx-Kodak Employee

                          We used to say the exact thing about picture quality and that everything was secondary.

                            #11 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:42 PM ESTPlantsmantx

                            Picture quality in regard to digital cameras?

                              #11.1 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:17 PM ESTBrian Ford

                              I think he’s making a joke about Kodak’s recent announcements, here. Wink wink.

                              • 2 votes

                              #11.2 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:57 PM ESTPlantsmantx

                              Well…:). Yes, I got that part of it. What I didn’t get was why he was speaking as if Kodak digital cameras had the best picture quality…in terms of digital cameras. Of course he could be referring to Kodak’s film picture quality, and…ok, I’ve leaving it alone, LOL.

                              • 2 votes

                              #11.3 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:05 PM ESTBrian Ford

                              I think the idea is that Kodak totally missed the boat on what smartphones would do to the market for dedicated cameras.

                              • 2 votes

                              #11.4 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:26 PM ESTGerry Croce

                              It’s not about picture quality, it’s not about the device at all. It has to do with selling content. Apple wants to control both the platform and the content.

                              Why would Apple want to create a great product like Final Cut Pro, and sell it at the ridiculous price of $300? It’s a pro product that can be mastered by a novice. A high school kid can produce a TV series. Which means an out of work or moonlighting team of media pros can produce a movie very cheaply. And the obvious way to distribute media now is as an iOS app, through iTunes/iBooks, with Apple taking a 30% cut. The content will already exist on Apple’s servers in iCloud, and the app will run on any of the customer’s devices and can stream the content from iCloud.

                              So we are living in a post PC and a post TV world thanks to Jobs. This is what Jobs meant when he said he cracked the TV problem. The device and SIRI are just a part of the answer. And what it further means is that Apple will develop an insurmountable lead in entertainment and advertising. They don’t want to sell TV’s, they want to own TV.

                              • 2 votes

                              #12 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:56 PM ESTParis Paraskeva

                              “They don’t want to sell TV’s, they want to own TV.”

                              Spot on there!

                              The TV set itself and what happens after you buy the TV is 2 different things!

                              Samsunbg is focused on selling you a TV!

                              Apple i believe is focusing on what happens after you buy the TV!

                                #12.1 – Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:03 AM EST n1313

                                This is pretty much saying it all:

                                “How smart they are…great, but let’s face it that’s a secondary consideration.”

                                Translation:

                                “We can’t think of anything that would add value to a TV. We just can’t figure it out.”

                                Yet the TV user experience by and large sucks. That’s why Apple is coming. Apple knows they can’t up the ante on picture quality that much. But they clearly think that they’re going to add huge value to the TV, using their software and data services – iOS and iTunes/Hulu/Netflix. It’s not a guaranteed success. But betting against Apple might be unwise, given their track record.

                                • 1 vote

                                #13 – Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:23 PM ESTAndre Richards

                                You don’t have to be a genius to see that Apple only needs to figure out a killer way to leverage its already unstoppable entertainment and content ecosystem to pull the rug out from under the TV market in the same way they did with music players, music sales, book sales, phones and tablets. The guys at Samsung should have sat up and paid attention the day the first AppleTV rolled out. That was a tip off and few industries get such a blatant heads-up when Apple decides to move in. If Samsung hasn’t been working their butts off to secure content deals and build up infrastructure to deliver it to their customers, they’re sitting ducks.

                                • 1 vote

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